The wacky three point fury system - Page 2

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But there is still this problem of the orbs shooting all over the place all the time. It's hectic and chaotic. One second your orb is one third full, then completely full, then empty, then 2 thirds full all in two seconds. What the hell is going on and how do you keep track of these giant steps?

And, attacking something with you skills causes a huge increase AND a huge decrease in your fury. That seems like a very strange foundation for such an important mechanic.




I am hoping this is the sort of mechanic which sounds extremely complex and unwieldy on paper, but turns out to be quite intuitive in actual gameplay. I guess that after some practice, you should be fairly adept at keeping track of your fury.

In other words, the barb plays better than it reads.|||You gained fury from the damage you dealt to enemies from a fury-consuming attack

i.e. I would spend 1 orb on a cleaving attack of 8 skeletons in my arc, and get 3 full orbs after the attack because he hit all 8 skeletons, each giving him about 1/2 of an orb

so basically, the barbarian will have no problem developing fury against masses, and he really didn't have any problem developing fury 1v1 against strong monsters either, though obviously it took longer (relatively) and I had to actually THINK about what moves I wanted to use against this foe.

Also, I never had my fury orbs vanish, though I didn't stay out of battle for more than 20 seconds.|||Quote:








Stillman, i think you need to read the latest news article posted here on the site regarding the Barb tree and skills, it has notes on each skill and gameplay feedback, and from what i read the system works just great.




I read it, I just don't like the concepts. Well, the concept of getting angry to generate more fury does make sense, but I also like the older method of having a limit on how much of this combo spamming you can do. For instance, it appears you can just keep using your combos described in an above post to generate fury forever in a hypothetical case where enemies keep coming into the screen. So you could just keep keep taking them down forever and it would make more sense if you got tired out eventually, imo. In d2, if the damage inflation problem didn't exist then the leech would not be so high and I think you would get tired out eventually.

Also, I would prefer a system that was not based on three chuncks, which simply seems too little. Why not 5 or something more just on principle? The skill costs don't sound all that diverse with "Well, this one costs one and this one costs two."|||Quote:




I read it, I just don't like the concepts. Well, the concept of getting angry to generate more fury does make sense, but I also like the older method of having a limit on how much of this combo spamming you can do. [...] In d2, if the damage inflation problem didn't exist then the leech would not be so high and I think you would get tired out eventually.




In D2, mana leech was pretty crucial to physical damage classes. By giving the barbarian, and probably both the monk and the unannounced ranged class as well, a resource system that doesn't involve mana, they can completely remove the mana leech stat from the game because it won't be needed by anyone. It's a bad stat anyway because it trivializes resource management when that should be an integral part of a class. Instead, they balanced D2 around it.

In D3, they'll likely put more of an effort into making the classes feel truly different from each other and a class' resource system is a big part of how it plays. The WD will be using mana, the barbarian fury, the wizard something else, the monk something else as well, which means the unannounced class is highly likely to have its unique system too.


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Also, I would prefer a system that was not based on three chuncks, which simply seems too little. Why not 5 or something more just on principle? The skill costs don't sound all that diverse with "Well, this one costs one and this one costs two."




Speaking purely from a design point of view: fewer orbs are easier to manage. Once you have five orbs and many skills that all cost one-five orbs, it becomes difficult to keep track of all that. The system gets too mathy, too complicated. Moreover, increasing the number of orbs would likely result in a change of fury generation rate, as keeping the same rate of generation wouldn't have a noticable impact on gameplay anyway. You'd have more orbs but they'd still fill up and empty at the same rate as previously, so why change it? Reducing the generation rate would on the other hand promote slower gameplay because filling the orbs up would take longer and the player would get to execute less skills in return.

To remove such unnecessary complexity in favor of better gameplay, a low number of orbs is better. With fewer orbs that fill up and empty fast, the player is discouraged from hoarding the resource and encouraged to keep spending it, speeding up the game's pacing. I'd say they've chosen the right number of orbs because it strikes a good balance between too many and too few.|||I myself have no problem with the fury-system in itself, altho I haven't played the demo the fury-management from the Warrior in WoW was a good thing. It's just the visual implementation in D3 that looks confusing, haveing it represented by a globe or bar (like in WoW) wouldn't work or what?|||Quote:




I myself have no problem with the fury-system in itself, altho I haven't played the demo the fury-management from the Warrior in WoW was a good thing. It's just the visual implementation in D3 that looks confusing, haveing it represented by a globe or bar (like in WoW) wouldn't work or what?




It would probably work, but a single globe/bar would be more difficult to read than the current stop light system. Imagine that you want to use a skill that costs 60 fury. With an globe/bar, you can't really tell if you have 55 or 65 fury. Telling the difference between one or two lit orbs is much easier (assuming one lit orb equals 30 fury for the sake of argument).

Fury gain in D3 will be faster than rage gain in WoW, so you'll be given less time to do the math. In WoW you can enable a numeric display that tells you exactly how much rage you have. That's very useful and all, but in D3 you wouldn't have much time to use such a feature in combat.|||Quote:








It would probably work, but a single globe/bar would be more difficult to read than the current stop light system. Imagine that you want to use a skill that costs 60 fury. With an globe/bar, you can't really tell if you have 55 or 65 fury. Telling the difference between one or two lit orbs is much easier (assuming one lit orb equals 30 fury for the sake of argument).

Fury gain in D3 will be faster than rage gain in WoW, so you'll be given less time to do the math. In WoW you can enable a numeric display that tells you exactly how much rage you have. That's very useful and all, but in D3 you wouldn't have much time to use such a feature in combat.




I get your point but don't agree completely, the current system in D3 has the runes aswell as the globes, I don't know if you can draw fury from the runes aswell or when you max the runes it fills a globe and starts over on the runes. And it's quite "estimateable" how much mana/life you have in D2 for example even without numeric representation since you know your max hp/mana, and if you don't have enough the default attack will be used in a lot of cases. Yes D3 will/should have a greatly boosted version of the WoW fury-system I realize this, and it should also have the option of showing the amounts you have in numbers and thus no need for multiple globes, atleast I think so...|||Quote:




I get your point but don't agree completely, the current system in D3 has the runes aswell as the globes, I don't know if you can draw fury from the runes aswell or when you max the runes it fills a globe and starts over on the runes. And it's quite "estimateable" how much mana/life you have in D2 for example even without numeric representation since you know your max hp/mana, and if you don't have enough the default attack will be used in a lot of cases.




I don't think the runes matter as an individual resource, they are likely there to just give you an idea of how close you are to filling up the next orb, or perhaps purely as decoration. It's the amount of lit orbs that matter when it comes to using your skills.

I'm not arguing that a WoW style globe/bar system would be unusable or anything, you could probably just spam skills and hope you have enough fury to execute them. Just saying that with a simple 3-orb system you either have enough orbs, or you don't, and it's easy to tell the difference. I don't think a system where you estimate how much fury you have is more user friendly.|||Wow, I found the perfect video to demonstrate my slight frustration with this stoplight system:



(Hopefully the people in the video don't do anything nasty because I only listened to the 1st few lyrics, then I felt a bit ill.)

But yeah, ABC. Easy as one two three. The barb is from grade primary! I agree that using the WoW system may be the better mechanic over d2, but I think it's the appearance and the over simplified, REALLY dumbed down aspect of just three blobs to worry about. They still may change it they said. To me, idk, I just don't want to look at a three block system for a whole weekend. I'm a grown man here, lol. I can count past three.

Edit: I know what you're going to say. The d2 orb system was more "dumbed down" than the new d3 system which makes you think and plan your moves. True, true. But I'm saying the new system looks really preschoolish, and looks are important too!|||Though it sounds simple, im not sure how simple it really is. In all honesty, its much more complex than the D2 mechanic.

Sure there are only 3 globes, but that means each skill costs a minimum of 1/3rd your max fury. Just imagine if this was true for D2. Fury does sort of act like mana leech, but either way it will require much more planning than the simple pot spam / mana leech from D2.