WHAT!? Those passives are insanely good. In normal creep situations they won't glow but you can bash them anyways. If the % gets high enough you could be having berserk on for the whole boss fight and this stuff can double your damage. Attack speed and critical % scale really well with gear! Also extra dodge will be really good if you are tanking the boss.
But yeah, they are boring as hell in the long run and there can be streaks where there aren't any berzerking going around. I just hope they don't introduce internal cooldown to these kind of stuff so it can be a bit more interesting.|||Quote:
tl;dr: random chance to use skills is kinda lame, relying on actions within time periods is probably better.
Why is it lame? With the amount of skills found in each tree, there needs to be some variety so as to not end up with 30 very similar skills or whatever the amount is. Between passive skills and active skills, you need hybrid skills.
You need something that requires a bit more interactivity from the player to benefit from, e.g. skills that occur when certain conditions are met and can only be used in a short time frame. These type of skills reward player skill and awareness, so they're all good. We can call them semi-active skills.
Then you have skills that only occur when certain conditions are met but also occur automatically and last a short amount of time. This creates a change of playstyle for the player because you'll obviously want to benefit from the temporary bonuses, so you can pop other cooldowns or use more devastating/expensive skills before the buff timer runs out. We can call these semi-passive skills.
In other words, you could list them as such, ranging from high level of interactivity to low:
- Active skills
- Semi-active skills
- Semi-passive skills
- Passive skills
The downsides of the "pure" skills are evident: too many passive skills and player interactivity is low, too many active skills and the player is overwhelmed with choices. There needs to be a balance and hybrid skills help sort that out.
I don't see where this "lameness" or "pointlessness" you speak of is, as it's a far more interesting system than anything D2 had. You've obviously welcome to come up with a hybrid skill type of your own, though, as I'm sure it would be interesting reading material.|||It's called Pseudo Random Distribution.
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/inde...owtopic=245439
Have fun. My actual numbers were off, but the principle of it is the same.
But I was wrong on thinking that WoW also guaranteed these things. I was thinking about Procs Per Minute system which allowed the "chance to occur on hit" effects to be just as effective on slow weapons as they were on fast weapons.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Procs_per_minute|||Quote:
I don't see where this "lameness" or "pointlessness" you speak of is, as it's a far more interesting system than anything D2 had. You've obviously welcome to come up with a hybrid skill type of your own, though, as I'm sure it would be interesting reading material.
I, personally, just find the idea of a skill happening randomly to be pretty uninteresting and unreliable. It could happen when I'm just fighting one guy in the middle of no where, it could just not trigger when going up against a whole group of dudes. It could just not occur when you want it to, meaning you're hoping that the skill you put points into just isn't happening when you want it to.
I know that having a high rank in the skill will make it more likely to activate, and that D3 will have you getting attacked by a lot of things, but I just find the idea of a skill randomly activating to just not be reliable enough for me to want to put skill points into it.
By "lame" and "pointless" I was mainly referring to the trigger being a random chance. It could literally be anything but a random chance mechanic and I'll probably enjoy it more.|||Quote:
I, personally, just find the idea of a skill happening randomly to be pretty uninteresting and unreliable. It could happen when I'm just fighting one guy in the middle of no where, it could just not trigger when going up against a whole group of dudes. It could just not occur when you want it to, meaning you're hoping that the skill you put points into just isn't happening when you want it to.
To me, the randomness is what makes it interesting. Since there's no guarantee it'll occur, you can never have a truly set plan when heading into battle. This makes combat a little bit less about routine and more about adapting to whatever happens. If the skill procs then you react to that and change your strategy accordingly (e.g. use skills that synergize with the procced skill for a bigger bonus). If it doesn't then better luck next fight.
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By "lame" and "pointless" I was mainly referring to the trigger being a random chance. It could literally be anything but a random chance mechanic and I'll probably enjoy it more.
I can understand your concern, but if it is anything but a random/conditional mechanic then it's too similar to the already present passive/active skills. Perhaps there is some way to introduce a skill type that is neither passive/active nor random/conditional but I can't come up with any.
If you feel like trying out these random skills before D3 release, I suggest you give Titan Quest a try. It has plenty of random skills that give you a good idea of how they work and how much they add to the game. Plus it's a pretty decent game.|||if youve played titan quest, youll agree that the idea of passive skills with a % chance to activate actually work really well with a melee character. blizzard has borrowed a lot of the good things from titan quest, such as inventory expansion and respawn waypoints, in addition to passive attack skills.|||Quote:
The downsides of the "pure" skills are evident: too many passive skills and player interactivity is low, too many active skills and the player is overwhelmed with choices. There needs to be a balance and hybrid skills help sort that out.
The downside of too many active skills is actually that people use the best ones and ignore the others.|||Revenge is awfully similar to a skill called Retaliate in the Diablo 2 mod Median XL. It's a weapon-damage nova with knockback that can be used 100% of the time when you get struck, and lasts for a few seconds (which can be boosted by another skill).
It might seem like you can use the skill rarely when your ctbh is only 5%, but there's an easy way to increase that to 100% - just toggle Run. When running in D2 the entire hit formula is disregarded.
If anything I'm pissed that the chance to use Revenge is so low. Maybe you get hit a lot more often in D3 than D2. We know nothing of how defense works, anyway.|||Quote:
The downside of too many active skills is actually that people use the best ones and ignore the others.
I see that more as the consequence of having too many skills to choose from, but it's true nevertheless.
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If anything I'm pissed that the chance to use Revenge is so low. Maybe you get hit a lot more often in D3 than D2. We know nothing of how defense works, anyway.
Titan Quest has several very similar skills with equally low proc chance and they work just fine there. Proc chance is generally a function of how strong the proc effect is, so if the devs increased the proc chance they would likely tone down the effect in return (assuming the skill was balanced to begin with). If the proc chance is too high then the skill becomes too similar to a passive skill, which it's supposed to be different from.
That said, if reading skill descriptions from a game with another 2 years left to release pisses you off, you're probably taking it too seriously. :)|||Haha, perhaps "pissed off" wasn't the best phrase to use. More like "bothered".
And the reason I don't like the low proc is that it makes the skill depend more on the RNG and less on your skills. You can't just run at an enemy and be assured that you can bash their heads in the moment they attack you, you have to hope that you get lucky.
That isn't so much of a problem for the "semi-passive" skills like the ones that boost your movement and attack speeds, but I'd expect it to be so for active attack skills.
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